Tag Archives: Big George

Anthony Joshua VS Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky, Ali, Joe Frazier, Big George, Larry Holmes, Iron Mike, Lennox Lewis, & Wlad

Anthony Joshua: age 27, 18-0, 18 KO, 44 rounds, 3-0, 3 KO title record. The Josh prime pro career has only just started, yet he is currently the best he’s ever been, so how does that stack up with the best heavyweights ever in a fair comparison, F-A-I-R being the keyword here?

Careful Ref on Josh's Knockdown Follow Through

Careful Ref on Josh’s Knockdown Follow Through

Cross referencing the timelines involved using statistical variables yields the following:

Jack Dempsey 12-1-5, 11 KO 1916, age 19, no contender 5 years before title

Joe Louis 18-0, 14 KO 1935, age 21, no contender 2 years before title

Rocky Marciano 18-0, 17 KO 1949, age 25, no contender 3 year before title

Muhammad Ali 18-0, 14 KO 1963, age 22, one contender Doug Jones 1 year before title

Joe Frazier 18-0, 16 KO 1967, age 23, no contender 1 year before title

George Foreman 18-0, 15 KO 1970, age 21, no contender 3 years before title

Larry Holmes 18-0, 13 KO 1975, age 26, no contender 3 years before title

Mike Tyson 18-0, 18 KO 1986, age 19, no contender 9 months before title

Lennox Lewis 18-0, 16 KO 1991, age 26, no contender 2 years before title

Wladimir Klitschko 18-0, 17 KO 1998, age 21, no contender 2 years before title

My conclusion: Josh whoops all save the possibilities of still green  Joe Louis, Foreman, Tyson, or Wlad getting to him. Josh easily whoops all their comp at that stage with not many of Josh’s comp being whooped by their comp as they build their records on the timeline. Josh represents the new continuation of supersized heavyweights that has taken over the division since the reigns of Lewis and the Klitschkos. His biggest advantage besides size/strength/boxing ability is being a fully mature age 27 in his athletic prime years with unparalleled success, scarcely losing a round. Most of the others were much younger at the same stage and less developed.

These I take to be the protagonists’ best fight showing dominance without controversy or officiating help: Joshua–undefeated Dillon Whyte pretitle

Jack Dempsey–KO champion Jess Willard in a epic beatdown

Joe Louis– KO rematch of 52-7-4 Max Schmeling in the biggest ever fight of the day broadcast by radio internationally to an estimated 70 million radios with uncounted numbers of listeners in dozens of countries gathered wherever a radio could pick up the relayed broadcasts

Rocky Marciano– KO 149-19-8 LH champ Archie Moore

Muhammad Ali– UD 39-4 WBA champ Ernie Terrell

Joe Frazier– UD Undefeated champ Ali in Fight of The Century/Fight of the Year

George Foreman– KO undefeated champ Joe Frazier

Larry Holmes– UD 20-2 contender Randall Cobb
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Mike Tyson– UD undefeated WBC champ Tony Tucker

Lennox Lewis– UD once defeated 37-1 contender David Tua

Wlad Klitschko– UD undefeated Alexander Povetkin in his homeland of Russia while Russia was engaged in a low level war against Klitschko’s native Ukraine, so political animosity and armament was off the shelf.

Could Joe Louis beat Max Schmeling with the rematch being held in Nazi Germany? We can’t say other to note it was easier to beat Max in Yankee Stadium than to travel to hostile Berlin. Can Wlad beat Josh in front of 90,000 screaming meemies in England’s Wembley Stadium? In two weeks we’ll have that answer.

6-6, 250 lbs vs 6-6, 250 lbs in Black Tees

6-6, 250 lbs vs 6-6, 250 lbs in Black Tees

My conclusion for now: Dempsey, Tyson, Frazier, Foreman, Lewis, and Wlad comprehensively whooped better fighters than did Josh, and certainly Rocky also by the legendary status of Moore who might well whoop Whyte also even if a bit of a stretch size and age wise. Whyte vs Terrell or Cobb would be good 50-50 scraps. I could go into the 2nd and 3rd best bouts showing dominance, but this project just a short refresher of the historical timelines of these fighters, and by the end of his career, Josh surely will have many more scalps in comparison. Thing is, if Josh whoops Wlad in his upcoming, bingo, now he has a comparable victory to Frazier.

Finally, let’s look at where the fighters were at age 27 as Josh currently is.

Jack Dempsey age 27, out of boxing for that year, title record 4-0, 4 KO.

Joe Louis age 27, beat Buddy Baer, Billy Conn, Lou Nova, Buddy Baer rematch, Abe Simon, all title fights before being inducted into the Army for 3 yrs. Title record of 22-0, 19 KO.

Rocky Marciano age 27, usually by KO beat Tiger Ted Lowry, Bill Wilson, Keen Simmons, Harold Mitchell, Art Henri, Willis Applegate, Rex Layne, and Freddie Beshore, all pre-title fights the year before his title with Rex Layne being his first Ring ranked scalp.

Muhammad Ali age 27, in boxing exile up before the US Supreme Court for judgement with a title record of 10-0, 8 KO.

Joe Frazier age 27, BTFO out of Ali in FOTC/FOY. Title record 8-0, 6 KO.

George Foreman age 27, KOed Ron Lyle, Joe Frazier, Scott Le Doux, and Dino Denis at the start of his comeback from Ali loss, title record of 3-1, 3 KO.

Larry Holmes age 27, beat Tom Prater, Horace Robinson, and Fred Houpe, all unranked pre-title fights 2 years before his title.

Mike Tyson age 27 incarcerated on bogus rape charges arranged by DKing. Title record of 10-1, 8 KO.

Lennox Lewis age 27, beat Razor Ruddock and then Tony Tucker for his first title(vacated by Big Dummy Bowe)

Wlad Klitschko age 27, beat a couple of minor fringe contenders looking for his 2nd title, title record of 6-1, 5 KO.

My conclusion: Ali and Tyson were unavailable, but more proven and would be the favorites. Rocky and Holmes were too poorly tutored to beat Josh if ever. Lewis was near the same unproven stage as Josh, but Dempsey, Louis, Foreman, and Wlad were more proven and have excellent chances of knocking Josh out with Josh being the underdog. As much as I love Frazier, this a bad size and style matchup for him that I’d pick Josh over in spite of Frazier being more proven. Lewis knocking out washed up versions of Razor Ruddock and Tony Tucker yields no confidence in him as he always looked ready to faint when entering the ring. Josh in comparison has the Eric Molina defense to take him to a 3-0, 3KO title record, and he’s coming up on the Wlad challenge, so he has 7 more months to make his 27 year old destiny.

In summary: Josh is up there by many measures in his current form or has surpassed many on this list at the comparable timelines, most particularly at the comparative 18-0 marks. He still has quite the gauntlet to traverse before being mentioned with the upper echelons of greats as I’m sure most already instinctively know.

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The Strange Case of Deontay Wilder, The Last US Olympic Medalist

Deontay Wilder was the sole US Olympic Medalist in boxing from the Beijing Olympics of 2008, the only bright spot among that ill fated Olympic squad.

He won a bronze medal, so perhaps flew under the American radar upon his return given the poor showing by the rest of the team, a far cry from the gold medal bonanzas Americans used to gather in as their birthright in the glory days of yore.

The Bronze Bomber

The Bronze Bomber

Deontay sorta came out of nowhere to win a pair of national amateur titles before qualifying for the Olympics and nabbing a bronze, so he has a limited amateur background. Call him a George Foreman Lite since George surprised a lot of folks by taking gold in 1968 with a very limited amateur background before turning pro.

Difference between Big George’s pro career and Wilder is that Foreman started off facing some pretty stiff competition and quickly became a ranked and greatly feared fighter.

Young Wilder is a month away from turning 25, the start of traditional athletic peak years and coming up on 2 yrs as a pro while sporting an 11-0, 11 KO record. Sounds great, right?

So, in 4 yrs he’d be 22-0, 22 KO and a ranked fighter, right?

WRONG!

He might well be 22-0, 22 KO, but he won’t be within a light year from landing a ranking by facing the poor opposition he’s been feasting on. His last two opponents were 400 and 300 pounders respectively. The 400 pounder had never beaten a fighter who had won a single fight and is so poor that not even boxrec will rank him. The 300 pounder is just under a 500th boxrec ranking, meaning there are almost 500 fighters around the world ranked ahead of him.

I’m sure there are many more qualified folks than I in boxing wondering how Wilder can develop into a contender fighting such morbidly weak fighters?

It’s not like he doesn’t have a strong team behind him either.  Mark Breland is his trainer and is arguably the best amateur boxer in US history, an Olympic Gold Medalist and two time WBA welter champ, so he has some chops. Wilder is managed by Shelly Finkel and promoted by Golden Boy Promotions, high profile insiders.

Did Golden Boy blow a golden opportunity this Saturday to feature The Last US Olympic Medalist as the headliner in Las Vegas on an otherwise dreary weekend in boxing that sees him buried in Mississippi fighting another 38 yr old no hoper flirting with a 600th boxrec ranking?

And Mark Breland relocated from Brooklyn to Mississippi to train Breland for this?

Really?

Or is Deontay Wilder simply not interested in doing more than exploring the bottomless depths of boxing’s empty barrel?

Shame is that he’s a very long, lean, handsome, telegenic type of kid that Americans desperate for a glimmer of hope in the heavy division could really get behind, but the general public has just flat out never seen him or forgot about him if they had even heard of him.

The most damning, obscene words imaginable fail to capture the depths that the long time dominant American Big Man in boxing has fallen into for this and future eras it would appear.

There is HUGE $$$,$$$,$$$ to be made for the next American heavyweight champ, but apparently all you can eat buffets and soft opposition that they can gum are more inviting with this generation.

Nobody with any sense expects the kid to necessarily be fighting fringe contenders in his 2nd full year of professional boxing, but the kid is moving backwards at a faster rate than he’s moving forward. He’s being de-evolved as a prospect, and nowhere near being a contender in this lifetime.

Well, it’s his life and his career and he and his handlers can do with it what they may, but it remains a mystery for a fighter known as the Bronze Bomber.

Who?

Give It Up For Da Preeminator, A Future HOFer!

By Bobby Mac

Time for all Da Preem’s grumpy old critics to retire their sagging vitriol against Da Preem to their jars of old dentures in the cabinet.

‘Tain’t a matter of if Primo Carnera is ever elected to the IBHOF, but rather of when.

With a record of 88-14-0, 72 KO against a cast of HOFers in his era, there is no heavy champion save a couple of fringe claimants with more wins. Big George comes the closest with 76-5-0, 68 KO, with George  being also considered something of a giant in his day. Yet a prime George would be dwarfed next to the gargantuan Carnera.

Yes, I can hear the hue and cry over comparing Carnera to Foreman, but those would be tiny teacups overflowing of no concern. Their blinkered tunnel vision crops the wide scope of boxing history to their own discredit.

Da Preem is a complex case study in the fabled stories of Giants that occur in every culture and who’s boxing career somewhat parallels his modern day equivalent, Big Niko Valuev, both highly intelligent men with no boxing backgrounds who turned pro guided by unsavory management more interested in exploiting freak value than developing  boxing legends.

Da Thinker

Da Thinker

Da Preem, however, was a rare heavy champ in the manner of Dempsey and Baer in that he becomes a star of note in Hollywood movies, something greater champs coming after him never achieved. One can only imagine the tales of his exploits in Hollywood during the time he was feted as royalty.

Like all streaking meteors, Primo reached an apex of brightness before flashing out in a spectacular display of slugging and mauling when he succumbed to Max Baer in his last championship bout.

Then the dark days followed. A kidney disease robbed him of his stamina and strength that necessitated a kidney removal during the darkest days of the 1930’s leading up to World War 2. He finally had to accept that he could no longer box in those most desperate hours, completely abandoned by his handlers with no support.

But Primo proved to still be a champ, coming off the deck well past his prime as a sick man to fight an enemy much greater than him when he joined anti-fascist Italian loyalists. He was wounded in an heroic losing battle as their group of ragtags were overwhelmed by Mussolini and German Nazis stamping their own murderous mark upon history.

After the war, in spite of making million$ in his prime for his handlers, Primo was as penniless, destitute, shoeless and hungry as any of his Italian peasant brethren. However, he was still blessed with his formidable size and champion’s heart, so he embarked on a long barnstorming career as a ‘rassler and referee across the American and European landscape, always introduced as the former Heavyweight Champion of the World.

This article is not really designed to comb through the formidable record of Carnera which shall stand on it’s own merits in due time once the winds of prejudice against the big Italian blow out, but rather pay homage to the lasting charisma and spectacle that he brought to depression era boxing, no doubt attracting the largest overall gate totals in history when added together.

Here’s well past it post prime Primo featured in one of the great iconic cult classics of all time, Mighty Joe Young, with an impressive display of eye popping physical prowess for sure:

 

Primo in merry olde England where he and Young Stribling were imported to put on a royal dustup:

with Young Stribling

With HOFer Young Stribling

 

Holy Mittendorf, look at the mitts they put him in to keep his hands off!

Myrna Loy with her boys

Myrna Loy with her boys

 

Flattening Goodtime Charlie Chaplin:

 

Flattening Goodtime Charlie

Primo had no problems standing out in the maddening crowds:

 
 
Standout

Standout

Children and Giants have a natural affinity, so no surprise to see Da Preem with a handful of little fellows:

Blessed Little Ones

Blessed Little Ones

 

Mr & Mrs Primo with their own:

Mr & Mrs Primo with their own.

Mr & Mrs Primo with their own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Always a bad day at the office when you PO Jack da Giant Killer!

Jack the Giant Killer's Primo Straightener!