Tag Archives: Mosley

Ratings, Ring Ratings & Good Sport

by Bobby Mac

Now that the Floyd Mayweather Jr vs Shane Mosley fight has been settled in a definitive way with a wide unanimous decision by Mr. Money, the next raging debate is the welter and the P4P ranks by Ring Magazine.

Mayweather Connects

Mayweather Connects

Now, ratings are a strange thing. Almost nobody agrees with them. Even within the most widely used bodies that actually do the ratings which are done by consensus tallies, quite often there are pronounced splits leading to plurality consensus rather than an ideal comprehensive consensus.

My personal opinion is that the further from the first ranking the rank becomes, the more meaningless it becomes as objectivity and subjectivity tend to blur into a large fuzzy splot of consciousness more akin to debating the number of angels who could dance on the head of a pin as used to be all the rage by past century’s greatest intellects.

Often there is a consensus among the public as to who the top 2-3 spots are even if they disagree on the specific order.

Boxrec does the earliest updates, literally by the next day after every fight usually. It’s all done by the computer programming where an editor enters in the official results and out spits the fighter’s new point totals and ranking, making it the most objective of the rating’s system. The criteria used in the programming must have been created by Rube Goldberg’s grandson, a dense network of points for this and that and the other and points against that, this, and any other thing they can think of.

For a more detailed explanation of this impenetrable maze than this poor scribe can come up with, go knock your eyes out here: http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxRec_Ratings_Description.

Before M & M(Mayweather vs Mosley), Pacquiao was the #1 welter and Mayweather #2 in Boxrec. After M & M, the computer swapped their positions, even though Manny beat the bejabbers out of the guy who beat Mosley a couple years back, Cotto, and then drummed all the fight out of a fighter with near the same rank as Mosley, Clottey. Go figure as it’s all mumbo jumbo to me.

Pacquiao Does the Business

Pacquiao Does the Business

In theBoxrec P4P ranks, strangely enough Bernard Hopkins has had a stranglehold on Boxrec in spite of beating nobody of note since his singular Kelly Pavlik victory ages ago. It seems Boxrec rejiggered it’s programming in a dramatic way, as now Hopkins has lost both his P4P and Lightheavy top spots when his point totals reduced by a third. Try knocking off a third of your bank account to see how that works in the real world.

Somewhere Rube Goldberg is beaming like a proud parent.

Fightnews has a comprehensive rankings of the WBC, WBA, IBF, and WBO that they supplement with their own rankings in each division. There is no key as to when they do their updates, but they had Manny as #1 and Mayweather #2 before M & M, and nothing has changed.

So, the BIG DADDY of rankings has just updated it’s own after taking a vote from a myriad of sources, presumably all “boxing experts,” so let’s take a look at the latest Ring updates.

Like Boxrec, they swapped out Manny’s #1 spot with #2 Mayweather, so that Mr. Money is their new #1 welter. To quote Nigel Collins, Ring Editor in Chief, “The debate among members of THE RING’s Ratings Advisory Panel concerning who should be No. 1 pound for pound was fairly evenly divided between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather,” Collins said. “Manny and Floyd could very well be considered No. 1A and No. 1B. However, the tricky thing about the pound-for-pound ratings is that they are much more subjective than the divisional ratings, which are objective and based on results within the division.” 

Really? Well, let’s take an objective look at their very own rankings.

Mayweather has a win over their #4, Mosley, and that’s it. He hasn’t fought any other currently ranked Ring fighter.

Now compare to Paquiao, who knocked out the guy who last beat Mosley before Mayweather, Miguel Cotto, Ring #5, who did it without the hysterics of almost being knocked out like happened to Mayweather. Pacquiao also pitched a brutal shutout over the Ring #6, Clottey, so his body of work is double that of Mayweather as far as Ring rankings go.

So much for Ring objectivity in the welter ranks, so let’s move to the P4P rankings.

No change in Ring P4P ranks with Pacquiao still #1 and Mayweather #2, but wait, there’s more! Per Mr. Collins, P4P ratings are more subjective, and he’s right!

Manny has a win and draw over Ring #3, Marquez, whereas Floyd has a win over #3, Marquez, and #5, Mosley.

Well, it all becomes too much of a beauty contest for me to take seriously, which is why I tend to enjoy my little sport with the rankings. Interesting to note though that there are two new entrants in the P4P ranks that coincide with my personal list I compiled a month back, Sergio Martinez, and Pongsaklek Wonjongkam. Now I haven’t updated my own list yet as I was more interested in looking at the ranking processes of three of the most widely read rankings.

Not being on a deadline with an editor in chief breathing fire down my shorts, I can afford to wait a bit for the fur to settle out from this last tear-up. 

1 M Pacquiao
2 Timothy Bradley
3 L Bute
4 P Williams
5 JM Lopez
6 Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym
7 Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
8 W Klitschko
9 V Klitschko
10 F Mayweather

I reinstalled Mayweather to #10, which is a shame after his stellar comeback from a certain knockout where he showed heart never exhibited by him before. Thing is Mosley was not nearly so highly ranked by me as in Ring and he almost had Mr. Money out of there. Then the spector of Mayweather backing off the scratch line of the 3/13 date that was the first concession Pacquioa granted him and backing out of the 90% drug testing concessions Manny granted him.

I also hated to bump my newly installed Sergio Martinez, but I cannot ignore the overall performance Mr. Money put on.

He’s trying to sneak in the backdoor though, so I’m gonna give him the backdoor on my own list for now and see if he can work his way up. Both my top two guys have strongly expressed an interest in fighting him as well as #4 Williams, as well as several other prime fighters of note. Prime ranked fighters in his divisions being the key point of respect if Mr. Money wants to claim he’s in the driver’s seat.

Enough of the old man tour!

Who R U Pickin’ The Mosley vs Mayweather Preview

by Bobby Mac

It’s almost time for the 2nd Biggest Boxing Spectacle of the Year when Shane Mosley defends his WBA welterweight title against himself.

Shane & Brother Nazim

Shane & Brother Nazim

“WHAT on earth are you talking about? Mosley’s fighting Floyd Mayweather this coming Saturday. It’s gonna be HUGE!”

True dat, true enough, but…………Mosley won’t be defending his belt against Mayweather unless there is a sea change in the WBA official position. All supposedly due to sanctioning fees, non-payments of same, and prickly egos. So, if Mosley wins, he retains his title, but if he loses, the title I guess would go into the nomenclature of WBA speak, “Recess,” until an eliminator can be fought to reclaim it.

The WBC has sent out feelers of the possibility of this fight being for the WBC’s freshly minted “Diamond Belt” that they awarded Pacquiao for his victory over Cotto, but nothing firm about that as of the date of this article. One supposes that Pacquiao would hold the WBC Super Diamond Belt with Mayweather holding the WBC Regular Diamond Belt, but I’ve learned there is no predicting the complex tiered system of championships each organization has in place for each division.



I mention these things in advance of the actual preview of the fight, because this is an extremely complex affair as any Mayweather fight has evolved into over time. Two fights were cancelled just to cobble this fight together after one lawsuit filed against the promoter of this fight and both the fighters of this fight. That would be the defamation lawsuit filed by Manny Pacquiao.

More insidious complexities caused the cancellation of The Biggest Fight of the Year, the Pacquiao/Mayweather bout scheduled for last March. It would be a stretch to think all these complexities won’t play out in the ring come fight night, but hold that thought for a moment so we can look at the fighters’ acumen and talent.

Age: Mosley is 38, and Mayweather is 33. Result is an edge for Mayweather.

Size/Strength: Both are near the same stature with Mosley slightly bigger and a weightlifting background. Result is a slight edge for Mosley.

Speed/Reflexes: Both have good hand and foot speed, but Mayweather is the younger man. Result is slight edge to Mayweather.

Power: Mosley was a noted KO artist at lightweight as Mayweather was at superfeather. Result is an edge for Mosley.

Stamina: Both are traditionally in superior condition, and no change in recent training reports. Results are a draw.

Mayweather 146 - Mosley 147

Mayweather 146 – Mosley 147

Skills: Both with considerable offensive skills, but Mayweather noted as a defensive artist as well. Result is an edge for Mayweather.

Experience and competition: Both well experienced against excellent oppostion, but Mosley has had more and tougher fights, perhaps too experienced at this point, but he is way more experienced at the weight. Result is a slight edge to Mosley.

Ring Generalship: Mayweather the undefeated fighter and Mosley with 5 losses. Result is edge for Mayweather.

Corner: Mayweather listens to his own muse and his Uncle Roger cannot come close to matching the overall credentials and professionalism of Nazim Richardson who has arrived at this point in time with a considerable legacy still in ascendency: Result is an edge for Mosley.

Intangibles: Hard to know what motivates two HOF quality fighters late in their careers, but there is genuine animosity between them with the history of Mayweather wanting this fight many years ago, and then moving on to which Mosley then ran the gauntlet of desire. So they have arrived to this point in a simmering contrivance of convenience. Result is a draw.

Ring Rust: Both have it, but both are gym rats who never get out of shape. Result is a draw.

Outside distractions: Both are being sued by Pacquiao for defamation. Mosley is coming off a divorce with reduced finances and Mayweather’s tax woes are no secret. Mosley otherwise enjoys a relaxed southern California lifestyle, whereas Mayweather moved operations to Las Vegas where the Mayweather family continues to run afoul of the law that seems to be their preferred lifestyle. Results are a draw.

Just sewing up the preview by the numbers with draw=0, slight edge=1, edge=2: Tally is Mayweather 7 to Mosley’s 6 pts. Result is a slight edge to Mayweather.

OK, you done good holding all those complexities of this fight in check that are just bursting to come tumbling out.

I agree with the result being a slight edge to Mayweather, but given the complexities which included money, legal issues, heated tensions, drugs. boxing politics, I’m not sure if there can really be said to be a true edge to this fight that would swing my betting if I were a betting man.

So, me not being a seer, I make no claims to divine the winner, but the complexities will make a close fight closer, even really. Mayweather may still be in the driver’s seat as the higher ranked fighter of recent record, but I’m predicting a tough, ugly, hotly contested and controversial fight with officiating disputes before, during, and after the fight. The best fight of the night may come from Uncle Roger.

Let’s just say this fight is a new and different breed of classic.

1. So, it’s Mayweather for me, and the rest of the writers to follow with their own predictions.